tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3757493.post115118809098070350..comments2023-11-16T12:01:35.179-06:00Comments on Noises From the Machine: On the "Fabric of Reality"luaphacimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01082422747277912266noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3757493.post-1151367230898027062006-06-26T19:13:00.000-05:002006-06-26T19:13:00.000-05:00so.. you point out that Christianity as an organiz...so.. you point out that Christianity as an organized religion has used the methods of change that I listed.. I'll grant you that, but repeat my question... what other methods are there?marshwigglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07843451067165315501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3757493.post-1151354216775685912006-06-26T15:36:00.000-05:002006-06-26T15:36:00.000-05:00I think the problem is that progressivism is despi...I think the problem is that progressivism is despicable to many Christian groups rather than vice versa. Jesus seems to have been a fairly progressive person, what with talking to Samaritan women and advocating the giving of one's extra cloak to the one who has need and all. So the difficulty, in my mind, is actually one of religious people failing to follow Jesus's progressive example rather than progressives failing to see religion as a solution. <BR/><BR/>(Interesting side note: Historically, religion -- and, particularly, Western incarnations of Christianity -- has been associated for nearly two thousand years with the things you speak of so disdainfully: increased power, more wealth, and violent means of enforcing social domination. So maybe some would argue that these things are responsible for Christianity's virtual monopoly in western culture for the past couple millennia?)luaphacimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01082422747277912266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3757493.post-1151341673591341632006-06-26T12:07:00.000-05:002006-06-26T12:07:00.000-05:00hmm. I tend to believe that man is essentially the...hmm. I tend to believe that man is essentially the same as he was two thousand years ago. Then again, I only think that because history simply records the same power grabs and cruelty over and over again. Can change be accomplished? Yes, but only through self-interest. Ironically, the best way to preach social change is either on the grounds of religion- i.e. ethics handed down by higher authority and seeking to please that god by doing things to please him/her, financial interests i.e. this will bring me more money, or increased power, i.e. this will make me one of the elite or make everyone equal (this usually only appeals to the ones who feel subjugated, or the last method shown to work- violence- change because I will hurt/kill you otherwise. Since religion tends to be despicable to the progressive movement, along with capitalism (the financial method) you are left with socialism's empty power sharing promises or violence.. Am I forgetting a proven method of change? Enlighten me. :)marshwigglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07843451067165315501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3757493.post-1151207592469509532006-06-24T22:53:00.000-05:002006-06-24T22:53:00.000-05:00Interesting point. I don't think you need to belie...Interesting point. I don't think you need to believe that people won't be selfish in order to see the world change (not that you indicated you did) but much of what we ascribe to "human nature" somehow turns out to be malleable because it was, in fact, societal. <BR/><BR/>At any rate, it seems to me that it is better to align oneself with a way of thinking that works for change than to sit around criticizing that change. If nothing else, I'd like to save that until I'm old and comfortably on my front porch, shaking my fists at kids who freighten and confuse me. =)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com